So Where WAS Obama Born?

"...Snopes has been accused by forum members here of being part of some Liberal plot..."

Snopes is self-serving (as well as Liberal-serving) and subject to correcting their own errors "on the fly".

WND finds errors in Snopes and "Fact Check" accounts of BO's birthplace:

Quote:

"But it even gets worse for Snopes.com and wikipedia.com. By clicking on the link wikipedia provides for information on Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children you find these comments:

"The hospital is the alleged birthplace of Barack Obama, President of the United States..."

"Wikipedia is unable to confirm Obama's hospital and even admits his official birth certificate is in dispute as Snopes.com links to wikipedia as proof that Obama was born in Kapiolani Medical Center and not only that but the very source that Snopes.com cites for the hospital of birth also contradicts Snopes.com report on the issue of Obama's birth certificate."

http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/07/snopescom-changes-hospital-of-oba...

I grew up in Hawaii.

I'll have to ask my Dad what hospital I had my tonsils out at. I recall it as Kapi'olani Hospital: The "Medical Center" part must have been added since then.

Once again producing a birth certificate would end all this crap, why does he not do so?

"...Legally speaking, what you've seen is absolute proof in any court that the president was born in the US..."

I have legal proof that O.J. Simpson killed no one.

exactly as anonymous says. Produce a Birth Certificate. A certification of birth is not a birth certificate even in Hawaii.
I hear these things all over the place. Except of course the main stream media. Just listen to talk radio for a while x. Now I know you will say that isn't a good enough source and maybe it isn't , but maybe it is? Time will tell.

I had a bit of time today so thought I would post this. I think it sums it up for you x. I know you will criticize it, but irregardless, you have been asking to see it somewhere.

http://www.godvsobama.com/obamacrimes/?cat=199

I made my donation to Berg vs Obama:

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Did you donate wolf? How nice of you. I am not getting desperate at all. If he was born in the US and is a citizen fine, if not, then he should not be our president. What is the big deal. Produce the proof.
I just posted that because x kept asking about it and I thought that summed it up pretty nicely.
BTW, Berg is a liberal democrat.

tis is a rabid Republican.
oc

tis is a rabid Republican.
0c

You know, oc, I am registered as a republican, but I really don't think I am a republican anymore. They disappoint me. I truly think I must be a libertarian. I just plain don't like the government telling us what to do all the time. I don't like them taking my money, I don't like them being my nanny. I want to be left alone. Fix my roads and defend my country and other than that, leave me alone. Is that a libertarian? I don't think the gov can do one single thing right except those two things, which we need them to do.

xrayspx's picture

Cool tis, thanks. It will have to wait until the weekend probably, but I will read it.

I just really want to see original sources on stuff, you understand. If there's actual evidence for these beliefs, I'm all for it, I just haven't seen any, and with everyone and their brother vouching for this document, including any elected Republican, it just makes the non-believers look like a bunch of kooks.

If I can back up the God Vs. Obama folks, you'll see me jump on board, never fear. If it's the same kind of disjointed 9/11 (or Alien, or Kennedy or Freemason, or "insert conspiracy here") kind of stuff, then I'll run the other way.

xrayspx's picture

BTW, Berg is a liberal democrat

Ahem, so are these. Every party has their kooks, there's no denying that. If I had to classify myself more toward the Blue Dog Democrat archetype of fiscal responsibility, but socially progressive/ambivalent.


I break a bit with them on the healthcare reform deal, because we need to change it, fast. Healthcare costs in many states are approaching 20% of their revenue. Fast forward 20 years and from what I'm seeing the states will be spending upwards of 50% of their revenue on healthcare and education. According to Gov. Jim Douglas (R, VT), "In another decade or so, Vermont will be able to afford education and human services and nothing else" referring to their current 25% spent on healthcare now.

Our current system is SO broken, it just needs to change, and for all the bitching I hear about "But the government will be rationing your care"(which is false), there is no voice given to the people being turned down for critical procedures by their insurance companies and left to either pay out of pocket, or die, their choice.

xrayspx's picture

You were right tis. This isn't anything new, it's just the Berg case with no links. I have just a few questions based on this:

1:) Which is more likely, that there is a 48 year long conspiracy by the officials of the state of Hawaii to create a false president, or is it more likely that the third-hand testimony of Kweli Shuhubia, that he heard from some un-named Kenyan official that Obama was born in Kenya is full of shit? Why aren't these officials named at the least, and isn't this what one normally refers to on those fancy law-talkin' shows as "hearsay"?

2:) What is more reliable in your eyes, a list of unsubstantiated statements ("US Senator Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim and not a Christian, and that he was born in Mombasa, Kenya and not in the State of Hawaii”)? Or a sealed state document sworn to be authentic at every level of Hawaiian government?

3:) Let us stipulate that Obama can both forge a "COLB", have it placed in the records office, then bribe or blackmail every state official in Hawaii, as well as the FEC, DNC, RNC, all of his competition in the election, and any elected official in government literally from Hawaii to Washington. We'll also stipulate that he somehow was responsible for two newspaper birth announcements (issued by the state, not his parents) from 48 years ago. For this is the only way such a successful fraud could occur.

With that stipulation in mind, what will be proven, in your eyes, by the revelation of the 1961 birth certificate? Could that not also be forged? Why should anyone think that all this will end with that document?

And a couple of statements:

1:) When I was 21, I could not tell you what hospital I was born in. In fact, at 34, I cannot tell you what hospital I was born in.

2:) This guy lived all over the world, it's not as if they drove by the place every day on the way to school. I've only lived in two states and I can't tell you with any certainty where I was born. The closest I can come would be "Mercy something" or "Something General" (they all bleed together after dealing with hospital people all.day.long.). Give a 21 year old credit for being right 50% of the time.

3:) It is my current position that had this man's father been from Edmonton and been named Steve Johnson, we would not be having this conversation.

xrayspx's picture

I missed this part earlier, from the Site you Cite:

01/01/68: Indonesian School Record, “Name of School: Fransiskus Assisi School, Name: Barry Soetoro, Citizenship: Indonesian, Name of Parent: Lolo Soetoro, M.A. The school records indicate that Barack Obama Jr. aka Barry Soetoro attended first grade in Indonesia and that he was born in Honolulu Hawaii on 08/04/1961 and his father is Lolo Soetoro.

So here we have, as evidence that Obama isn't Obama's Obama, a repudiation of your claim that enrollment in an Indonesian school means our president can't be our president.

The Indonesian school records your guys cite indicate that he was enrolled in 1st grade in Indonesia, and also that he was born in Honolulu.

So I think that, according to your sources, we can close the books on the whole Indonesian Gambit piece of the discussion.

Does look like a Catholic school name to me, not too many Muslim Terrorists care a whole lot about St. Francis of Assisi.

It also shows that there is yet another foreign government which is complicit in the 48 year old scheme to elect a Phony. Where will it end? How many documents can one man forge anyway?

Yeah, tis, we shouldn't need birth certificates at all: We should all be issued certificates that say we are Earthlings, and be done with it.

PTW, here is a freshly printed Obama trillion dollar bill. Will this help solve the Birth Certificate thingy?

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At least, I am a little more flexible on it than you are x. You are absolutely sure he is legit. I am questioning him, not saying absolutely he is not a citizen. Unlike you, I am willing to look at all sides.
I knew that wouldn't satisfy you. Nothing will.

Smart poster writes:

"The State of Hawaii said they have a record of his birth, in accordance with the law that allows births outside of Hawaii to be recorded in Hawaii.

"They didn’t claim that the proven forgery was authentic.

"They didn’t claim that he was born in Hawaii.

"They didn’t claim that he was born in the U.S.

"They didn’t release any records."

I don't think the COLB is a forgery, though.

I don't know that an adoption would constitute fraud. (Making his Kenyan grandmother correct.)

It's a bit late to produce a long-form BC, as it would need time to authenticate it.

Ironically, Illinois readily releases long-form BC and short-form BCs, as well as COLBs.

Xrayspx, why don't you have a BC? Why don't you know what hospital you were born in?

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Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

I've got a birth cert. someplace, but it's in pretty foul shape (tearing around the seal), so it's in an envelope in a filing cabinet someplace.

If I wanted to know what hospital I was born in, I could find out with a couple of phone calls, or digging for my birth certificate (though it might just have had the city, I can't recall).

However, the quotes Tis cited seemed to be questions where Obama wouldn't have had the time to research it, so he just said what he thought. If someone asked me, right now, I wouldn't be able to answer them correctly, I know that.

From Tis:

At least, I am a little more flexible on it than you are x. You are absolutely sure he is legit. I am questioning him, not saying absolutely he is not a citizen. Unlike you, I am willing to look at all sides.
I knew that wouldn't satisfy you. Nothing will.

It's not that I'm not flexible, if there were any evidence, that would make me curious. There isn't, here's another scenario:

"I have a close friend in the Air Force, he told me Area 51 is a smokescreen, and while everyone is looking there, the real Alien technology is being flown even today out of Nebraska. Aliens are actively helping us with several Air Force and NASA projects. You will never hear about it though, because it's classified".

That is exactly the level of evidence being presented. An acquaintance of an acquaintance told me there's classified material that proves something.

From PTW:

I don't think the COLB is a forgery, though.

If it's not a forgery, then why don't you buy it as proof? Where did you get the quotes listed in your last message, I didn't see them on the thread.

Oh, and Tis's link to GodvsObama no longer works, however if you have mesothelioma I urge you to find a reputable lawyer and probably not one you get from a link-redirect.

"...If it's not a forgery, then why don't you buy it as proof? Where did you get the quotes listed in your last message, I didn't see them on the thread...."

The quotes are from a www.freerepublic.com site.

The COLB is not a copy of the "long-form" birth certificate: it merely states that a BC exists.

I would think that EVERY American should insist on Obama's presentation of proof of his eligibility.

(And IF not, WHY not?)

"...if you have mesothelioma I urge you to find a reputable lawyer and probably not one you get from a link-redirect...."

Or for brain cancer, don't go to Canada...

http://www.thehopeforamerica.com/play.php?id=1340

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Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

It's been fun, but when everyone's favorite M2F conversion calls this a movement of "a few cranks", I think it's time to nail it shut (EDIT I should warn you not to do a google image search for "M2F"):

Huckabee makes the point I've been making, if there was any truth to this, at all, you'd have seen Clinton jumping ALL over it. The birther movement has presented zero evidence that this man isn't American. All that has been presented is requests for documentation, which even CTW says won't be believable if released.

Unless...unless They got to Ann Coulter and Mike Huckabee. I hadn't considered it. Does The Syndicate have no scruples left? Do they have Ann's DNA results in a secret vault under the white house just waiting for her to dare to cross The Syndicate?

"...if there was any truth to this, at all, you'd have seen Clinton jumping ALL over it..."

This isn't "Hillary's" problem—nor is it a "Republican" problem: The very question of Obama's eligibility for the Presidency WAS INITIATED:

1) By Hillary supporters.

2) Upon the Hillary run for President.

When Obama bombs-out by 2011, Hillary will be on his case with Big-Liberal-Bucks-Phillip-Berg once again—when it aids Hillary most.

3) No Conservative likes Hillary.

4) "The Birther" eligibility of Obama cannot be resolved by TV pundits—nor resolved as suddenly as did one torpedo from Popular Mechanics magazine that sank "The Truthers".

5) This can only be resolved through "Redress In The Courts"—a perogative fully outlined in The U.S. Constitution.

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Peace_though_Weakness

"...I've got a birth cert. someplace..."

That's good, 'cuz according to the latest "release" on this one, Obama does not:

http://www.australia.to/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=128...

How did xrayspx and Ann Coulter agree on this one anyway?

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Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

I don't have a problem with demanding further proof of citizenship, but you have to supply a reason for it. No one has answered the question: Why do you believe this man wasn't born in the States?

We have no right to see this "Long form" birth certificate. Those who /are/ in charge of it have verified it, said the "long form" is valid, that he's a citizen, and that everyone should STFU and GBTW.

The "Long Form" certificate has been verified by officials in charge of things like these. THEY have a right to see and sign off on these documents. We don't. This is why we have a bureaucracy and what you call your "representative democracy". We elect people to work in our interest, and those elected people appoint people to run such and such agencies.

So if you want to question the Republican governor of Hawaii who has signed off on the fact that this man has a legitimate "Long form" birth certificate, that's your prerogative, but no one is under any obligation to show us anything.

I'd be willing to give it some more thought if there was any actual evidence being presented, but like the 9/11 guys, the Alien Conspiracy guys and the Illuminati guys, there really isn't any.

But you mentioned censorship, who's being censored? Now THAT is a fight I'm willing to fight. As much as I disagree with this topic, I'm completely willing to entertain it. So, apparently, is Geraldo. If you can show me government suppression of someone's freedom of speech, I'll totally fight that arm-in-arm with you. Loudly.

xrayspx's picture

This morning, Tom Ashbrook hosted a show on this topic.

On this show, interestingly, Orly Taitz changed her tactic completely. As I predicted, it's no longer about Obama's birth status in terms of having been born in Hawaii. She believes that now. Now, the argument is that to be a "Natural born citizen", both of one's parents must have been born in the US. This is an issue which was resolved 112 years ago. Again, not a conversation we'd be having if his dad was from Edmonton.

Strangely she still seems to want to see the original, which in her stated opinion now has no bearing on anything. Obama has stated publicly that his dad is Kenyan, there's no debate around the fact that his dad is Kenyan. He didn't "bamboozle" anyone with that, it was openly discussed during the campaign, and hasn't been presented as a problem until now.

Michael Medved then went on to say that the people at the heart of this debate aren't Republicans. This is much the same as people here calling Bush a RINO after 8 years of unwavering support. When it became clear he fucked up, then it's time for "Well he's not one of us, he's a RINO Lieburul".

The thing that really disappointed me about the show was that Orly Taitz couldn't participate like any other panelist, so wouldn't take in-line questions from Tom and played some weak victim card, while Mr. Medved seemed to have no such problems. I would have liked to have heard much more from her.

xrayspx's picture

I didn't know until I was re-listening to a portion of the above show that Phil Berg was, in fact, one of the very 9/11 Truther morons I've been comparing this debate to.

Phil Berg filed RICO lawsuits against the Bush administration for 9/11 for their inaction and implied complicity in the attacks.

3 years ago you would have been all over this guy as the nutjob he is.

Tom Ashbrook's website is loaded with ObamaBots. See the references to FactCheck.org., MediaMatters.org, LA Times, CNN, and The New York Times? They'd sweep this story under the rug, if they could.

They all refer to this as "a recent flurry of media attention", when The ObamaMedia has been ignoring this for many months.

You also might want to check out your "friends" at FactCheck.org:

"...Fact Check is funded by Annenberg Institute. That is the William Ayers-Obama organization..."

"...I didn't know until I was re-listening to a portion of the above show that Phil Berg was, in fact, one of the very 9/11 Truther morons I've been comparing this debate to..."

He is a monied Democrat supporter of Hillary—first and foremost. That he is also a 9/11 Truther doesn't harm his credibility while attacking "W". There' nothing here to miss!

"...If it's not a forgery, then why don't you buy it as proof...?"

Looks like the Obama COLB is a forgery after all. A typical COLB from that era looks like this:

http://sites.google.com/site/obamabirth/_/rsrc/1227677550903/Home/obama-...

(And not like Obama's COLB that appeared on an Obama-friendly site "Fact Check" which was passed off as the correct COLB).

Overlooked was the fact that the redacted parts in Obama's COLB were done by software and don't appear like the one above. (Nor does any other part of Obama's COLB look like this one).

So regarding the entire issue, there is "something" on the long-form BC (or the real COLB) that "needs hiding", even if the co-issues of his under-age mother and unknown father get resolved. (More than his alleged father, Obama resembles "family friend" Frank Davis—a known African-American Communist who mentored Obama in Hawaii).

Wouldn't you like to know if Obama is really a foreign-born person, with far-fewer Constitutional ties to his so-called "native country" than required of a President?

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Peace_through_Weakness

xrayspx's picture

Tom Ashbrook's website is loaded with ObamaBots. See the references to FactCheck.org., MediaMatters.org, LA Times, CNN, and The New York Times? They'd sweep this story under the rug, if they could.

I'm convinced the reason for NPR being painted as some liberal apologist network is because of its listeners, not its actual reporting.

Did you listen to the show?

I have no friends at FactCheck. I referenced them one time, you bitched about how they are a bunch of dirty lieburuls, and I stopped referencing them. Fuck it, it's not worth it.

He is a monied Democrat supporter of Hillary—first and foremost. That he is also a 9/11 Truther doesn't harm his credibility while attacking "W". There' nothing here to miss!

It certainly did hurt his credibility. The reason he was attacking Bush was because he was a 9/11 Truther, and 9/11 Truthers have no credibility, ergo, yeah, you're wrong sorry.

The guy is a fucking nutjob. And from the harpy-screaming of Orly Taitz, it sounds like she's not far behind.

I still think it's interesting how she's changed tactics to admitting he was born here and his birth certificate is real, to saying he's not eligible because /both/ of his parents weren't citizens. She is grasping at straws.

Looks like the Obama COLB is a forgery after all. A typical COLB from that era looks like this:

That is a paper COLB filled out with a typewriter, Obamas is a reissue printed on a laser printer. How the fuck does your image prove anything? Should Hawaii still be paying people to sit in front of typewriters and fill out paper forms by hand all day? Good job, I'm pretty much convinced.

Wouldn't you like to know if Obama is really a foreign-born person, with far-fewer Constitutional ties to his so-called "native country" than required of a President?

I do know that he is. I just find it fascinating that you don't. You all are pleading ignorance "we don't know, we just want the facts to come out". We do know, the facts are out, it's just sad now.

xrayspx's picture

I should note that the one thing Orly Taitz, Berg and the others all have in common is that they all prominently take Internet donations. How much transparency is there in these organizations?

Maybe they do have a good reason for continuing this fraud after all.

I should put up a donation tip jar, I can tell you how much transparency there would be up front too. None! :-)

Actually, not true, I could institute an "Anything I buy, I will take a picture of and post it on the site" rule.

I meant this post to point out that "Dr. Orly Taitz" is not legally permitted to practice law in the way she has been. Her degree is from Taft Law School. At most, she can practice in California, but she has been listed as the attorney of record in cases filed outside California. I'm kind of surprised she hasn't been subject to discipline.

I guess really, what can they do? Take away her license? She doesn't have one, so it's kind of an idle threat.

That, and she looks like Eddie Izzard.

Berg was not taking donations when I first visited his website after hearing him. I guess all these lawsuits got to be too much. And all the resistence.

xrayspx's picture

Since there is no amount of money that could possibly prove his argument, he needs all the money he can get. It's so preposterous on its face, plus the fact that there is no evidence that the president wasn't born right where he says he was, that yeah, those costs are going to add up.

Even Taitz has backed off the "wasn't born in Hawaii" argument and is now trying her luck with "his father was Kenyan, therefore he can't be president" argument. It wouldn't have taken two of the poorest legal minds since Bill S Preston, Esq. to figure that out though, since it was the premise of an entire memoir published years ago.

If having a Kenyan born father were a disqualifying factor, he never would have been permitted to run in the PRIMARY.

Since I take it you haven't listened to the On Point show, I'll paraphrase Michael Medved:

In 1961, Obama's mom was 19, scared, in college in Honolulu. Her parents were in Honolulu. What could have possessed her, before the age of Jet Travel, to fly to Kenya of all places, away from her family, to give birth, and then launch a conspiracy around it, the only point of which would be to get her son illegally elected President?

Think about it, if you're pregnant, and you're in Europe on vacation, and you have the baby in Europe, the ONLY citizenship right that child /doesn't/ have (by default) is the right to be President. So the /only/ to lie about it, the /only/ reason for a 48 year long coverup involving two newspapers, and the entire government of a state, would be if they were grooming that infant to be President, illegally, as some kind of experiment.

Don't say "I don't have an opinion, I'm just asking, just being inquisitive". It's annoyingly disingenuous. Say "I believe he was born somewhere else", then provide even a SHRED of evidence to back it up.

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