So Where WAS Obama Born?

"...Snopes has been accused by forum members here of being part of some Liberal plot..."

Snopes is self-serving (as well as Liberal-serving) and subject to correcting their own errors "on the fly".

WND finds errors in Snopes and "Fact Check" accounts of BO's birthplace:

Quote:

"But it even gets worse for Snopes.com and wikipedia.com. By clicking on the link wikipedia provides for information on Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children you find these comments:

"The hospital is the alleged birthplace of Barack Obama, President of the United States..."

"Wikipedia is unable to confirm Obama's hospital and even admits his official birth certificate is in dispute as Snopes.com links to wikipedia as proof that Obama was born in Kapiolani Medical Center and not only that but the very source that Snopes.com cites for the hospital of birth also contradicts Snopes.com report on the issue of Obama's birth certificate."

http://www.valuesvoternews.com/2009/07/snopescom-changes-hospital-of-oba...

I grew up in Hawaii.

I'll have to ask my Dad what hospital I had my tonsils out at. I recall it as Kapi'olani Hospital: The "Medical Center" part must have been added since then.

"...I have no friends at FactCheck..."

I make sure I have no "Friends" on the Internet. I keep an open mind on ALL findings and question everything against their own documentation. Their "fact-checking" suddenly and mysteriously stopped when the proffered (and possibly faked) "Kos-Kids" COLB appeared in response to critics.

"...It certainly did hurt [Berg's] credibility. The reason [Berg] was attacking Bush was because he was a 9/11 Truther, and 9/11 Truthers have no credibility, ergo, yeah, you're wrong sorry..."

Berg attacks Bush when it's convenient to do so—then attacks Obama when it's convenient to do so. (For Hillary). Why won't you agree that Berg is a partisan hack for Hillary?

"...The guy is a [Kos-Word-Deleted] nutjob. And from the harpy-screaming of Orly Taitz, it sounds like she's not far behind..."

Only one Democrat has screamed—and to immense effect. (Dr. Howie Dean).

I hear no screaming from Dr. Orly Taitz—who, like Michelle Malkin—is a LEGAL immigrant who tries to keep Americans' collective noses to the Contitutional fire of The Founders).

Nobody—including graduates of Government Schooling—knows The Constitution like LEGAL immigrants.

"...That, and she looks like Eddie Izzard..."

"...Harpy..."

Aren't these the ad-hominem attacks we are pledged against here?

"...I still think it's interesting how she's changed tactics to admitting he was born here and his birth certificate is real, to saying he's not eligible because /both/ of his parents weren't citizens. She is grasping at straws..."

She's seen Obama's Long-Form BC?

I don't think so.

They're all straws in the same river of Obama's making. I'd like to see The Truth come out and not hidden by ObamaLaw—wouldn't you?

"...Since I take it you haven't listened to the On Point show, I'll paraphrase Michael Medved:

(Etc., etc.,)

I have no idea what "On Point" is.

I'm disappointed that my < img > of a BC didn't appear on your site. Would you correct that so that others (who may have missed it) can see it?

It was typewritten, but so would Obama's have been typed.

Observe the information on it (which was left off Obama's), rather than criticize the formatting (which is consistent with the years).

"...I meant this post to point out that "Dr. Orly Taitz" is not legally permitted to practice law in the way she has been. Her degree is from Taft Law School. At most, she can practice in California, but she has been listed as the attorney of record in cases filed outside California. I'm kind of surprised she hasn't been subject to discipline.

I guess really, what can they do? Take away her license? She doesn't have one, so it's kind of an idle threat...."

The issues go much further than the simple dismissing of Orly's claims and efforts. I don't know if she's a "real attorney", but "real attornies" get permission to argue cases before The Supreme Court.

(And why Clinton*s law-license revocation affected him similarly).

"...Don't say "I don't have an opinion, I'm just asking, just being inquisitive". It's annoyingly disingenuous. Say "I believe he was born somewhere else", then provide even a SHRED of evidence to back it up..."

We don't know where he was born—or even if he was adopted—then issued a COLB in its place.

If you look at the analogous/contemporaneous BC (the image of which did not appear here), you'll see that there are dozens of unfilled blanks that can answer ANY AND ALL charges as to his illegitimacy.

It should be illegal to allow a Presidential Candidate to go unvetted as to his Presidential Constitutionality of Legitimacy, but hiding—particularly the LEGAL hiding—of fraudulent claims seems to be a Chicago-based skill.

..."

"...I should note that the one thing Orly Taitz, Berg and the others all have in common is that they all prominently take Internet donations. How much transparency is there in these organizations...?"

What organizations would those be?

"...Maybe they do have a good reason for continuing this fraud after all..."

Who would term it Fraud—but ObamaBots?

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

Maybe we can all agree on this post from yesterday:

"[Our mission] has always included keeping the Right honest, which includes debunking crackpot conspiracy theories. The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff. Even Obama’s dual Kenyan citizenship is of dubious materiality: It is a function of foreign law, involving no action on his part...

"In any event, even if you were of a mind to indulge the Kenyan-birth fantasy, stop, count to ten, and think: Hillary Clinton. Is there any chance on God’s green earth that, if Obama were not qualified to be president, the Clinton machine would have failed to get that information out?"

xrayspx's picture

I can only take this to mean that you're now admitting that our president is our president?

I was going to link the NRO article from the other day, but I didn't want to watch you dismiss them as RINOs liberals, that was getting old.

The NRO article is more about whether Americans can trust Obama's statements—than about whether he was insufficiently vetted by Dims (and Hillary) for the Presidency.

Hillary's attorney, Phillip Berg, gave it a shot but had no "standing" in the courts. You'd expect an Army officer would have "standing" (to perform his duties under a legitimate Commander in Chief), but we'll have to wait for the courts.

If you examine the statement by a Hawaii bureaucrat, you see that it is carefully worded to avoid controversy.

I won't see the "overwhelming evidence" until I see the "Long-Form" birth certificate. Only recently has the COLB been renamed to "Certificate". (From "Certification").

That change was made to imply that it the COLB was the last word on Obama's legitimacy for President.

(When it's not).

"...The editorial desire to put to rest the “Obama was born in Kenya” canard is justifiable. The overwhelming evidence is that Obama was born an American citizen on Aug. 4, 1961, which almost certainly makes him constitutionally eligible to hold his office. I say “almost certainly” because Obama, as we shall see, presents complex dual-citizenship issues. For now, let’s just stick with what’s indisputable: He was also born a Kenyan citizen. In theory, that could raise a question about whether he qualifies as a “natural born” American — an uncharted constitutional concept..."

xrayspx's picture

The NRO article is more about whether Americans can trust Obama's statements—than about whether he was insufficiently vetted by Dims (and Hillary) for the Presidency.

This isn't Freep. I entertain all views, and in this, I find your views particularly entertaining.

Hillary's attorney, Phillip Berg, gave it a shot but had no "standing" in the courts. You'd expect an Army officer would have "standing" (to perform his duties under a legitimate Commander in Chief), but we'll have to wait for the courts.

I haven't seen that she's actually met him (outside of maybe a handshake at a fundraiser, but I hate Hilary, and could still accomplish that task). I certainly wouldn't say "Hillary's attorney".

I won't see the "overwhelming evidence" until I see the "Long-Form" birth certificate. Only recently has the COLB been renamed to "Certificate". (From "Certification").

The overwhelming evidence you seek is the fact that the released document is the document you get when you ask Hawaii for a copy of your birth certificate. That document is accepted at all levels of state and federal government for everything up to and including the highest levels of security clearance.

The lack of evidence here is completely on the accuser's side. No one has presented a shred of evidence that the document is false. You can't even provide a hypothetical argument as to why a 19 year old girl would leave her hometown and her family to fly on a prop plane half way around the world to give birth to her son, then force Hawaii's state government to issue two false statements to the press regarding the child's birth in the state of Hawaii.

Why she further bribed or blackmailed the state government over a 47 year span to perpetuate her fraud, when the only benefit to which her foreign born American son would NOT be eligible for is the highest office in the land.

Until you can show me a shred of evidence that any of this happened, I'm going to say "Fuck this noise" and let you troll yourself to sleep.

How does it feel to have just as much political capital as a man who wonders why he can't visit his partner of 20 years in the ICU?

"...This isn't Freep. I entertain all views, and in this, I find your views particularly entertaining..."

Glad you are "entertained".

I however, take the life and freedoms of this nation particularly seriously principally because I have seen a bronze statue left by Soviet-Communists in "occupied Vienna" and observed Soviet-Communist submarines "on the prowl" in Röstock, East Germany.

Maybe these things have no meaning to you.

"...I can only take this to mean that you're now admitting that our president is our president...?

1) The legitimacy of a President should be the concern of every American Patriot.

2) Here’s something recent and interesting that arrived at my Inbox:

http://www.truthinourtime.com/2009/05/lawsuits-piling-up-for-obama-birth...

“In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama's qualifications for the presidency, the group -- Americans for Freedom of Information -- has released copies of President Obama's college transcripts from Occidental College.

"The transcript indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school.

"The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California.

"The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program.
To qualify for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship.

"'This document provides the smoking gun that many of Obama's detractors have been seeking," according to the AP report."

3) Has "tis" seen this? Any validity? I've been too busy lately.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

No, I haven't seen it Peace, but that is extremely interesting and what we have been hearing all along. Keep us posted and if I see/hear anything, I will certainly let you know!

"Truth in our Time", WTF is that???

Anyone can create a free Google Blog and say anything they want.

My God man do you actually search for these blogs and then when you find what you want you post it on other forums.

You are a nut case if you ask me.

I'd say more but I think I'll cool off first!!!!!

Illegitimi non carborundum

Snopes attempted a cover-up for Barry Soetoro, but their own link doesn't work! (And, as usual, parsed their answer).

Actually, I'm not too interested in following up an e-mailed link—which is off-topic anyway.

(But I did find more info at "Military.com" that is harder to dispute:)

QUOTE:

"Here are some essentially uncontested, and clearly documented facts:

1) the certificate that Obama has made available is not his original birth certificate, and does not list (among other things) his attending physician or actual place of birth (just compare his certificate on the internet with your own birth certificate)

2) The document he put into public view is one that people who live(d)in Hawaii can obtain, even if they were not born there. That is why it is considered insufficient evidence, by the state of Hawaii, to obtain Native Hawaiian status and benefits (Google the Hawaiian law on this for yourself),

3) Obama has spent more than 950K dollars to date, on some 18 lawsuits seeking disclosure of his actual birth certificate (showing place of birth), in an effort to avoid having to publicly disclose his birth certificate or college admission documentation (see expenditure data from his campaign - you'll have to check the nature of the lawsuits he spent money on separately),

4) Obama did his first 2 years of undergraduate college at Occidental College, where he attended on a Fullbright Scholarship (for foreign students) and his application/registration at the college states (under his signature) that he is a citizen of Indonesia, This data was obtained under a FOIA request after his suit to bar disclosure lost (this is available on the internet too, just google it),

5) If he is not a "Natural born citizen" of the USA, then he is not elegible to hold the office of POTUS (see the US Constitution's clearly stated eligibility requirements -You remember, it's that thing we all swore an oath to uphold and defend against ALL enemies including domestic ones),

6) The government of Kenya, which BTW, declared Obama's birthday a national holiday in their country, has "sealed" and refused to reveal publicly, any documentation it has in country regarding his birth (why? and how can they seal documents they wouldn't have if he were not born there?),

7) rather than courtmartial an Army Captain for refusing to obey orders to go to Afghanistan (for which he volunteered) on the basis of their not being legal orders because Obama is not a legal POTUS, the Army cancelled his orders, but got him fired from his civilian job, (everyone else who tried this got courtmartialled, didn't they?)

Although underreported like the plague by the Obama-loving MSM, these are all well documented facts, and no one who has seriously looked into the issue disputes them.

So the remaining question is: "Why is Obama so adamant about not simply disclosing his real birth certificate?"

My answer?

He's hiding something important enough to fight it LEGALLY.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

"...I was going to link the NRO article from the other day, but I didn't want to watch you dismiss them as RINOs liberals, that was getting old..."

Maybe THIS is why we saw no quote?

QUOTE:

Suborned in the U.S.A.

The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.

By Andrew C. McCarthy

"...Throughout the 2008 campaign, Barack Hussein Obama claimed it was a “smear” to refer to him as “Barack Hussein Obama.” The candidate had initially rhapsodized over how his middle name, the name of the prophet Mohammed’s grandson, would signal a new beginning in American relations with the Muslim world. But when the nomination fight intensified, Obama decided that Islamic heritage was a net negative. So, with a media reliably uncurious about political biographies outside metropolitan Wasilla, Obama did what Obama always does: He airbrushed his personal history on the fly.

"Suddenly, it was “just making stuff up,” as Obama put it, for questioners “to say that, you know, maybe he’s got Muslim connections.” “The only connection I’ve had to Islam,” the candidate insisted, “is that my grandfather on my father’s side came from [Kenya]. But I’ve never practiced Islam.” Forget about “Hussein”; the mere mention of Obama’s middle initial — “H” — riled the famously thin-skinned senator. Supporters charged that “shadowy attackers” were “lying about Barack’s religion, claiming he is a Muslim.” The Obamedia division at USA Today, in a report subtly titled “Obama’s grandma slams ‘untruths,’” went so far as to claim that Obama’s Kenyan grandmother is a Christian — even though a year earlier, when Obama’s “flaunt Muslim ties” script was still operative, the New York Times had described the same woman, 85-year-old Sara Hussein Obama, as a “lifelong Muslim” who proclaimed, “I am a strong believer of the Islamic faith.”

"...Such was the ardor of Obama’s denials that jaws dropped when, once safely elected, he reversed course (again) and embraced his Islamic heritage. “The president himself experienced Islam on three continents,” an administration spokesman announced. “You know, growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father . . .” The “Muslim father” theme was an interesting touch: During the campaign, when the question of Barack Hussein Obama Sr.’s Islamic faith reared its head, the candidate curtly denied it with an air of what’s-that-got-to-do-with-me? finality: “My father was basically agnostic, as far as I can tell, and I didn’t know him.” And, it turns out, the spokesman’s fleeting bit about “growing up in Indonesia” wasn’t the half of it: Obama had actually been raised as a Muslim in Indonesia — or, at least that’s what his parents told his schools (more on that in due course)..."
—NRO

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

Peace, where did you see the info about his Occidental College years as a foreign student? I would like to read that. I thought he wouldn't release that.

xrayspx's picture

Peace, where did you see the info about his Occidental College years as a foreign student? I would like to read that. I thought he wouldn't release that.

There aren't any sources, the source of PTW's list of "uncontested and documented" facts is here on Military.com. Oddly, Mr. Meade also doesn't provide any documentation to cite these "well documented" facts either.

I guess we'll never know.

I think it's outstanding that the birth certificate debate isn't about where the guy was born, but about his "honesty". How is that so? You're saying "I believe he was born in the US, however he's not honest about having been born in the US"? Make sense of that for me. I don't care who delivered him, I care that he was born here, and the state provided documentation that proves he does. How is that not honest?

I know you don't trust FactCheck, because the truth skews lieburul, but the mail that guy seems to have cleaned up and turned into a list was an April Fools joke, and the Associated Press has confirmed that they never reported any "Fullbright"(sic) scholarship story, so the Fulbright angle remains to be proven.

Never trust anything anyone forwards you in email unless you can back it up with, like, proof. And not proof from a bunch of right-wing blogs.

EDIT:
Dang, I forgot to link the FactCheck article. PTW is that the email you didn't want to quote?

Tis, I don't know which of the e-mails it is. If it was the April 1st e-mail, I would have rejected it immediately.

As to FactCheck:

FactCheck says there are MANY Occidental College chain e-mails, BUT DISPUTE ONLY THE APRIL 1ST VERSION!

They say (like Snopes), that Fulbright Scholarships are PRIMARILY for foreign students. What they don't say is
WAS OBAMA ON A FULBRIGHT SCHOLARSHIP OR NOT?

They SELECTIVELY PARAPHRASE Gary Kreep as saying "...the letter is a hoax..." WITHOUT MENTIONING WHICH E-MAIL THEY ASKED FOR HIS OPINION ON!

Among their other assertions, how is that NOT "skewed Lieburul"?

"...Never trust anything anyone forwards you in email unless you can back it up with, like, proof. And not proof from a bunch of right-wing blogs..."

Well, IS the debunked e-mail "from a bunch of right-wing blogs"?

OR, as Wolf previously stated, "anybody can get a free Google Blog" and headline it with APRIL 1ST, and get it cheerfully debunked by FactCheck and Snopes?

An April-1st chain e-mail is the LAST THING A RIGHT-WING BLOGGER WOULD DO! (And the first thing a Communist-Socialist would do—as any Cuban Exile in the US would tell you of Fidel Castro having the identical Communist-Socialist minions as those who mindlessly post for Obama).

"...You're saying "I believe he was born in the US, however he's not honest about having been born in the US"...?"

Obama is not at all honest, having flip-flopped on many important issues. (Aside for his love for the Islam Call to Prayer, think of the $250,000 households "safe" from his depredations against the middle class, or "You can keep your doctor...").

I'm NOT saying he was or was not born in the US. I think it's important that every bill he signs can be thrown out on Constitutional grounds, AND that we should find out sooner than later.

Please consider me henceforth as though I was among the one-third of Utah residents polled who answered, "I think he was foreign-born OR DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TRUTH IS YET."

"...Mr. Meade also doesn't provide any documentation to cite these "well documented" facts either..."

Not every "fact" is documented there, nor have any been satisfactorily debunked by Snopes or FactCheck. It was FactCheck who posted and made their inquiry to the COLB, WHICH IS NOT THE LONG-FORM BC WE ARE WAITING FOR.

The COLB was mindlessly offered as proof of legitimate birth, and accepted mindlessly by FactCheck and Snopes. The COLB merely states that "some documentation exists" of Obama's birth.

Is that documentation a birth certificate FROM KENYA? A MUSLIM record of birth? An adoption document?

Can a Hawaiian bureaucrat be so PC (and afraid of losing his job) that he would parse his answer the way he did?

Why have so many Obama lawyers been tasked with debunking the Long-Form request?

Why is a Hillary-friendly lawyer still in the hunt against Obama?

"...Barry Soetoro.."

Of all the controversy, I am most convinced that "Barry Soetoro" is the name used to enroll Obama in Indonesia AND that his religion is listed at the school registry as "Islam". (As found and photographed by a US reporter assigned to Indonesia).

I am likewise convinced, forensically, that "Dreams of My Father" was ghost-written by Obama's Domestic-Bomber-Terrorist-Friend-and-Collegiate-Ally, William Ayers.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

Peace is right, xray. You must admit you don't know for a FACT that Obama was born in the US just as we don't know that he wasn't. You are of course entitled to your beliefs but that doesn't mean you know. You don't know that I was born in the US, just that I say I am. Unless I show you proof, it is all hearsay.

xrayspx's picture

Peace is right, xray. You must admit you don't know for a FACT that Obama was born in the US just as we don't know that he wasn't. You are of course entitled to your beliefs but that doesn't mean you know. You don't know that I was born in the US, just that I say I am. Unless I show you proof, it is all hearsay.

I must admit no such thing. The document released by the State of Hawaii is proof in any court in the land of one's citizenship. It is accepted proof by the government to verify one's identity when granting security clearances. No one requires any other documentation for anything. I know for a fact that Barry Soetoro was born in Honolulu.

See, you have to show proof that that document is forged, and that the Governor and everyone in the Dept. of Health has been bribed or is lying. Then there will be a reason to pull more documentation, which people can then claim is also forged.

"Peace Train - Cat Stevens

Exactly xray, "The document released by the State of Hawaii is proof in any court in the land of one's citizenship."

And, until the birthers can prove otherwise, President Obama is a naturalized citizen of the United States of America.

"God Bless America"

xrayspx's picture

No one should really trust anything they read in any chain email, ever. Anyone who has ever emailed me knows my thoughts on this subject, and anyone who sends me any email forward that isn't "look at this cute kitten" or "here's a video of a bigass explosion", learns very quickly never to do it again.

I have un-loaded on my own mom over this. Think about it, it takes one moron 30 seconds to zip off an email with no facts but lots of inflammatory what-if. In this case, all the emails "cite" an AP article about a "Fullbright"(sic) scholarship. Your first clue is that they say "AP has a story on this" instead of "The AP has a story on this, and that story is right HERE" with a big fat link.

I prefaced my previous message by saying "I know you don't trust FactCheck", but I assume you do have a phone, you can call the AP yourself:
Right Here and ask them, or send them an email. They'll confirm whether or not they printed this info.

The very post you quote as your source said "These are well documented and undisputed facts". No, they're not, and no, they're not. He tried to cite the AP, and the AP denies they ever printed such a thing.

Show me an original source proving the President received funds as a foreign national.

I don't rate political chain-emails any higher than the overwhelming volume of phony virus warnings, or superstitious nonsense.

"...I assume you do have a phone, you can call the AP yourself...Right Here and ask them, or send them an email. They'll confirm whether or not they printed this info..."

Which of the "chain emails" do I ask about? The "April 1" email?

"...The very post you quote as your source said "These are well documented and undisputed facts". No, they're not, and no, they're not. He tried to cite the AP, and the AP denies they ever printed such a thing..."

Which of the "chain emails" is he discussing? The "April 1" email?

"...Show me an original source proving the President received funds as a foreign national..."

What's an original source?

The supposed "source" says that "something" (an unknown something) "is a "hoax".

Nobody should be taking "FactCheck's" word on it: We don't know which email they're attempting to debunk.

It's still more "FactCheck" parsing!

Show me the original question and the original reply.

"...you have to show proof that that document is forged, and that the Governor and everyone in the Dept. of Health has been bribed or is lying. Then there will be a reason to pull more documentation, which people can then claim is also forged..."

Nobody's saying the COLB I saw is forged:
It is a mere document stating that an original, long-form birth certificate exists. I'm sure that's what the Governor is supporting as well.

The title of COLBs has recently been changed to assert more strongly its "truthfulness". That is suspicious on its face.

I don't KNOW that "everybody in the Dept of Health has been bribed". I'd expect that any employee would be disciplined for "unauthorized peeking"—much as what happened in Missouri over "Joe the Plumber's" legal indiscretions.

The "Long Form BC" would be easily proven or disproven by a forensic document examiner.

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

I received a chain email today that says that on Sunday, Hannity (of Hannity and Colmes) will be showing a severe critique of Obama's past associations with crooks, Terrorists, rigged real estate transactions, his agreements with his racist preacher (Wright), his obfuscation of his publications, his obfuscation of his college studies, his obfuscation of his college ratings, his obfuscation of his financial supporters and a revealing of his Afro-American COMMUNIST mentors.

Another hoax, huh?

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

"...And, until the birthers can prove otherwise, President Obama is a naturalized citizen of the United States of America..."

Naturalized???

"naturalized" -- Yeah I let Wolf slide on that one :)

so if you believe the short-form document to be authentic, what do you believe is being hidden in the original that would be disqualifying? the released doc has nation, state and city of birth. therefore, he's legal, therefore, you can stop the fight. You say Hawaii could have a documentation person inspect the original docs and report to you, well they have, you don't believe those people.

You didn't quote you chain mail, you quoted some guy on military.com. what makes you believe him? the occidental fulbright lie has its origins in chain emails and was debunked by calling the ap. you can re-debunk it your very own self.

See even wolf is a tiny bit flexible on it!

I thought natural born and naturalized citizen meant the same thing. However now I know they do not.

Stupid me!

I hope some birther hasn't already spread the word around that I said President Obama is a naturalized citizen.
What a mess that would be for our nice President.

xrayspx's picture

Well wolf, as we've seen, in some circles your comment would be seen as an incontravertable admission that we are protecting a charlatan.

Very interesting choice of a word, wolf---our "NICE" president.

"...Very interesting choice of a word, wolf---our "NICE" president..."

I prefer "Our Dear Leader" (of "The Most-Merciful" variety).

"...in some circles your comment would be seen as an incontravertable admission that we are protecting a charlatan..."

...Or a variety of a "Manchurian Candidate"...

BTW: It's incontr-O-vert-I-ble

Here's a 3-minute YouTube on the COLB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR3zB-FzO-E

With dial-up, I can do something important while waiting for it. (Like go sailing!)

You HAVE Googled "William Ayers", "FactCheck" and "Annenberg" by now, right?

>>

Peace_thorugh_Weakness

Is THIS the real Birth Certificate?

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q127/ntjoumas/certificate.jpg

(I haven't figured out how to make it a viewable image here—as yet).

>>

Peace_through_Weakness

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